Transcript of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3OzfaykVkI

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Greetings. Hello everyone. Hello. Hello.
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Ara, would you like to introduce our Yes. symposium members? Yes. Where is Dimmitri?
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Oh, I um we invited like 10 people today, I think. So, I just didn't send him the link for this one. But I mean uh in the future for sure we should do a contemporary.
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We can invite him. We're all looking forward to him making us crazy. Okay. Next next time for sure. Okay.
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Yeah. I enjoy also.
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A we invited several new people today.
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There were a lot of people they may not join.
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Okay. Okay, so we've got Nikico Salingaros, physicist, mathematician, urbanist, professor at University of San
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Antonio, Texas, and author of many, many texts including principles of urban structure, a theory
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of architecture and many more. N Burus, founder of uh Classic Planning Academy,
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author of the classic the art of classic planning and architect and urbanist. And we've got Pablo Hunes,
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who works with uh he told me the name uh twice. Let me see if I Katherine Ple.
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Works with Katherine Ple and um Katherine Ple Limited. Sometimes it's branded. See, LTD got him for
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LTD and teaches at the Classic Planning Institute.
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He's the director of education at the Classic Planning Institute.
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He's based in He's based in London, correct? From Spain, based in London.
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And we've got Nikico Lofredo.
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And then there's a there's a hyphenated um Nikico Lofredo Rot who is in Ecuador. I'm not too familiar.
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I just met him. This is my second time meeting him.
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Yes, I'm in Ecuador. I'm not an architect, not a neuroscientist, just a lover of good architecture. And
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yeah, I have sort of the the scoop of what what's going on here in Ecuador. Cool.
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So, I've got some images here that Nico compiled from an email thread, I
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believe. Um or I'm not sure. Okay. So, we've got multiple folders in here. I'm not sure.
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Okay. So, we start with the with the images of the new project. Okay.
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It might be a good idea. I have um short little update of what's going on to give context to the people that might not
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know about what happened in the moon. If if Yeah. Yeah.
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I'll I'll give it a go then. For those listening that aren't up to date on the evolving story involving the Guadian
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National Museum, just a couple of weeks ago on July 7th, there was a public outcry over the winner of the public contest for the new museum outcry which
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sparked a real debate about beauty and architecture and confronted the general public with the modern architectural establishment. After three beautiful
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days in which the subjects of architectural beauty, harmony, and identity were being discussed by people everywhere,
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the Minister of Culture resigned, not before revealing alleged insider contracts and shady real estate speculation deals directly tied to the
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museum. The government immediately retracted the prize, the winning prize, and announced a new contest with a new
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winner to be determined by a new jury and 15% of the popular vote. Despite the
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majority of the competing firms boycotting and resigning the contest, right during the thick of the World Cup
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final, the government announced a new winner and declared the triumph of the popular sentiment. Predictably, the
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public didn't buy it and today the new winner and the entire project continues receiving intense backlash.
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So, are they selecting are they selecting a previous entry or they're launching a entirely new competition? Same original competitors.
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Many of them resigned out of the competition. A few stayed and the public vote was between three finalists.
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I'm sure a few of us and our colleagues would like to enter if they do a new poll launch that There's not a new contest yet.
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Only only three of the original contestants stayed and then the government picked the one that was voted online of the three.
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Oh, I see. And that was the SA. That was the SA. Oh, right. Design. Okay.
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Please continue. Nico, do you have any more? Well, no. That brings us back to today.
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And I was hoping that you Nikos could give a little back. Well, I have I have discovered more more dirt that we should
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not discuss, but I want to mention it because it's published openly in the Spanish speaking press that my old acquaintance
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um Alejandro Sopolo was on the uh on the jury of the
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committee. He has written in the in the um Spanish-sp speakaking press that uh the SA proposal was put on the
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back burner because they found that it was structurally incomplete.
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Then the jury received pressure, political pressure to put the SA proposal up near the top which was not revealed but now he reveals it.
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and and the the the the decision of the jury uh to put it in the back burner
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sort of disqualify the son of proposal because of because they found technical uh problems serious technical problems.
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uh was never made public and was was hushed up. And uh now um uh some of the
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major um architectural journals are attacking Alejandro Therapollo
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personally saying that he uh is a is a racist and misogynist.
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uh because when when he was in a dean of Princeton architects school uh there was
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there were some problems those were totally cleared up he has a clean name I know the guy you know I had breakfast
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with him you know he's a nice guy but this is a vicious political fight to destroy Alejandro because he dared to
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expose some of the dirt so this thing gets worse at Princeton for a very short period and yeah but look Look, look, this is
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getting they're attacking him because he wrote about this and he's threatening he threatened uh Ar um Arch Daily because
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Arch Daily wrote some nasty things about him in connection with Aikito Museum and he he forced him to publish an open letter.
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So this is getting this is getting dirty and dirty and dirty.
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I remember there was an accusation that he had plagiarized the text or something. Well, okay.
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There is a nasty fight. There is a nasty fight because of this.
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So, I think we should just go ahead and present our own new proposal for a beautiful museum and let and let these people throw all the dirt at each other.
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Okay. So, where do I start?
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Yeah. Generate a drawing. Generated images.
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Okay. These are images that uh I generated from a scientific process that we will um no there's no need to zoom up
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uh the wheel disco discuss later. So this these are AI um generated processes uh images of the
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proposed new museum in a traditional Ecuadorian form language and we are going to devote at least five or 10
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minutes to discuss this totally novel concept but let's go through the images first if you want you know from the
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large scale going to the small scale now I use the AI to generate these
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images. Uh our dear friend Dr. Nir Buras who uh has an excellent eye um chose the
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best ones together with Professor Fa. Yeah, we did the Spanish Inquisition.
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Uh these images tell a very rich story
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with regard to Ecuadorian architecture and urbanism.
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I am personally not that familiar with it or familiar with it at all. But if
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the elements are genuinely of Ecuadorian origin
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what you see here could be actually a fabulous fabulous
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proposal by Professor Selingaros of what amounts to
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a um a a village around the the inherited Ecuadorian
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space, so to speak, a village of courtyards and buildings that together
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house the various collections in a manner that really speaks to their it creates a context for them.
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What you see is a series of of what it would look like on the street around very permeable giving you a lot of entrances.
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So as you drive around you are continuously reinvited in
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in in the most um meaningful ways.
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And you can see here how you have the street level, the elevated building slightly elevated above it. You will see
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in many of the uh drawings the handicap access and so on and so forth as part of
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it. Um and you see the upper stories in various renditions that are inviting you
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to explore the building. This is a continual linear advertising for the building as you drive around it
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where where it's actually in an area that is bereft of urbanism. It's just accidental
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commercial buildings and other objects that have no relationship with each other and which are separated by
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hundreds of meters of asphalt. So here suddenly you have something that is all about the heart of Ecuadorian life, culture, and history.
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Yeah. Now we're getting to the inside inner courtyard.
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Within the courtyards, you have a a real array of courtyards. You can imagine
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five, six, seven different courtyards each with a different characteristic, different appeal
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with exhibiting various, if you will, vernacular treatments and details.
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Um, it reminds me to a certain degree of Puikad Faulk's um, Pablo Espanol in Barcelona on top of Monik.
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It plays the same game kind of in how it integrates urban space, building design and cultural content.
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Do you want to say more? Professor Fes Niko Nikos.
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I'm I'm Nikos. Professor Professor Fes. Uh please feel free to comment and then Professor Fes has his own presentation after this.
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I think that these ones I mean I I particularly like I mean I wanted to comment on the one in the staircase. So I mean the the cordas are really really lovely and I think they represent very
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well of this evolution of the architecture from the visa royalties to the republican to the bell. And I particularly like that image of the
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staircase because a building of that type would have had a staircase of that type with the four flights. That's
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that's I I I felt that it's totally totally appropriate. There were there were others what were very good with the image of the staircase. But that particular one is like a monastic
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staircase or a palatial staircase from the 17th century would have looked like.
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And that that one that that's more like something in between. a bit the idea of the of something more a revival of any
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type. A lot of ceramic obviously to me reminds me a lot to Andia and all the ceramics of of andaloosia but at the same time I think works very well. I
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mean and Nikico I think that it will be you who should confirm if if you agree or not with our suppositions.
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I absolutely agree that there is lots of very familiar places to the Ecuadorian
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tradition. Um in particularly the fact that it is composed of many different patios creates this really this
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non-monolithic um sensation that that really speaks to plurality to different even perhaps
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micro cultures microclimates as as is Ecuador a country full of many it's the the diversity in Ecuador is perhaps its
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main main attraction to to the world and to you know common knowledge and the
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ornament is really breathtaking and there is many traditions of beautiful tile making in Ecuador that that
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reminisce um that that I reminisce when I see this ornament. It it really is is
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quite something to see all around even there is lots of foreign
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language that reminds us of more pre-Colombian traditions and the mix between the
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traditions is very exciting. It really touches in something very very special of of our culture of our building culture.
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the previous picture also.
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Um I you know this looks like somebody's living room with niches with uh with pots in it.
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Well, yes.
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You don't see this in museums. It's a residential scale environment for residential scale pots and pans.
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This would be great for a gift. It brings those objects into the comfort of your own home, so to
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speak, in in this setting, which is
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as authentic experientially as it would be to recreate the original
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um the original type of structures that the the original inhabitants who created
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these objects inhabited but translating it into our world in a
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not very sophisticated design, a more commonplace design. And I think there's something
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warm and loving about it that could actually help and help help communicate
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the sense of these objects as being treasured and used and loved by the people who made them.
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Wonderful. Well, this is the result of using um the pattern language which we'll get to
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very very soon. I believe this is the last slide. So all these are AI generated but
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after a process very scientific process of combining three documents into a very large prompt. So the actual generation
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was quick but the process took a long time. So um if you permit me I will go through the scientific process. Ara,
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would you open uh the documents back one where we have documents English publications?
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Um uh where is the the patent language?
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It must be the PDF in red, I believe.
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Yeah. Okay. No, this is not it. This is not it. Is it in the email thread?
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Okay. So, uh yeah.
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Okay. Celingaru's documents in English. That's it. Click it. Open that please.
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And pattern language Ecuador National Museum.
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A valid valid value for all.
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Okay. So we messed it up. Go back. Go back.
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So I will just Okay, I will just uh discuss this so we don't waste the time.
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Um the the first um
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is this opening? No, I think this website, this sync.com, um I don't have an account for.
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So, but if these are standard PDFs, okay, so let's um let's yeah, let's go
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back to um to Nikico's website which we know opens. Okay, that one. So I will
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just describe in words. um uh Bruno Pussle who is a software engineer and I
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developed a method of going online and choosing patterns of Christopher Alexander's pattern language
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and just clicking on patterns and then you select the ones and I did that myself using Buruno software and I
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thought which patterns out of 253 patterns will uh go well with the museum
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and um I clicked them and it created the PDF document. So I have this and this is the pattern language for the museum.
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So that's one part. It's it's a like a three-page No, four or five page document.
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Can you show Can you show that document what's in it?
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Well, uh we can't we can't seem to open it. Oh, okay.
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Okay. Let me try to get it open. So the second step was uh Nico and I we we looked at some pictures on
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the internet of traditional um Ecuadorian architecture which spans 3
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4,000 years. So then I asked um Chad GBT create the form language of traditional
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Ecuadorian architecture by picking from all the periods
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and just assembling what forms look like, shape of rooms, materials, orientation. This is a huge task that
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will take four people, five people for 6 months to do. And this is, as far as I'm aware, this is the first documentation of traditional Ecuadorian form language.
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And we got that that's a 20page document. And um is this the pattern language for this?
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Um yeah. Okay. So this is the pattern language that the software with Bruno
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Puzzle created. Just summaries of these patterns.
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And these are the patterns that um that will be used for the um uh for the
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um for the museum. So you know just stop somewhere uh uh courtyards which live. So there's a
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description of courtyards. That's why the the generate uh the program later generate the courtyards because I chose
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I thought it would be wonderful for this climate to have courtyards and near totally agrees that this is appropriate
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for the museum. And so this all these uh if you have the patterns in your mind if
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you have 40 patterns it is a a complexity problem that exceeds human
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intelligence. but the AI can put them together. So that's the patterns. Okay, the patterns don't tell you what
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anything looks like. It just gives you connectivity and variety. And uh I'm glad that Near picked up one of the
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patterns which is different intimatesiz rooms in the museum. So you have a large exhibition room and you have the small
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intimate room and they're all connected which is wonderful because you have the variety. So this is one of the patterns that that came out. So, Arf, if you can
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go now to the form language to see what we um uh um what we came up
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with and the form language of course is completely up to the designer. The designer will say, you know, I want the
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form language Frank and Zah had. But I instructed the AI to to get the form language uh which picks on all the that's it, the Ecuadorian form language.
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So uh inspired by Nico uh I got the AI to do this. Again you know this is a
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tremendous research feat for several graduate students PhD students and the AI did it just in a uh in so here is
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what it does. The role of this document it has the climate script the form vocabulary which is the lexicon of
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elements drawn from all Ecuadorian regions and four historical strata syntax color system ornamental system
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and variation protocol and so this is the documentation for the AI to use later if you want to
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scroll ju just to pick out some some sentence you know this is very technical
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But this is uh you know this may be the first time a Ecuadorian form language is put together
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and of course the architect can change this because this will be used as a prompt to the AI
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right but you know it came out very nicely so the ground like the pre-Colombian ground wall like the colonial roof like the
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indigenous celebration like the Baroque Question. Question. Yeah.
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You wrote this with Nikico.
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No, I uh I in discussions with Nikico, I knew what to ask the AI. The AI wrote
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this. I told the AI, look at all the images and all the documented historical um data.
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Summarize it as a designs. Exactly. Exactly.
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And the AI did this incredible work that would take six months for graduate students working on it.
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What do you think, Professor Fonus?
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Uh I am very impressed to to to say the least. I mean it's it's really really impressive and it's what Nico said. I
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mean it's it is accelerating all the research stage on any project which is which is really incredible. So it's things that as said I mean will take us
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ages to to figure out all that and then at the click it's it's it's quite incredible. The AI is going to kill us all. So it's it's incredible.
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No no no no no. This AI is actually giving us business because if you don't have
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Professor Celingo's expertise in pattern language you can't do this. It'll still take you
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six months. But he has been studying this for 60 years. It's in his blood
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and therefore so you have the human expertise actually knows what questions to ask.
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It's the AI can help you get a solution.
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But if you don't know the right questions, you're never going to get it.
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It seemed like the winning entry was a few times bigger, but you can't take all these principles and and add the square footage and have it, you know, stack on top.
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No, no, no. I I gave uh we'll come to the brief later. The brief was just half a page. I gave exactly the square footage that the brief demanded. Yes.
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Yes.
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So this is what you're looking at over here is an overlay
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of a selection a curated selection of Alexandrian patterns.
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No, no. This is a curated selection of of existing uh Ecuadorian buildings
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before that. You didn't you didn't go through all 256. You didn't include all 256 patterns. You selected.
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Okay. We're talking about something else, not the document.
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No, I know. I'm I'm I want to summarize to this point.
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Okay. I I went through the online software that Bruno Apostle has and it's free available free and I just clicked I
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selected a patterns that I thought would be good in a museum curated selection.
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Exactly. And about 30 of them and then it printed PDF uh condensation of those 30 for me to use in the prompt.
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Right. Right. Then you went with Nico and studied Ecuadorian architecture selecting iconic images.
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I did not select it. I instructed the AI to search through all the iconic images
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and then to write down definitions. What we're seeing in front of us now are the definition.
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the iconic images, the AI, it went through tens of thousands of of
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iconic images, plus descriptions of traditional Ecuadorian architecture to do that classification of materials and the dimensions and and colors.
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Something about this one calls back.
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So what I'm what I'm Okay, but you were guiding it. You could not do this without previous knowledge of the variables.
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I I just told you the prompt I gave it.
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I said, "Go through the entire history of Ecuadorian architecture before the modern times and uh give me a form language." And this is what it gave me.
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No, no, this is the pattern language.
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Ara, this is the form language. Okay. This is the form language.
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Okay. So, how long is this form language? Several pages. Nine pages.
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How much? Nine pages. Nine pages. Oh, eight and a half.
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Okay. All right. So, that's your form language. So, you're still in the realm.
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You somehow went from the you you mentioned at some point, and this is what I'm I'm confused.
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You went at some point and you selected images together with Nico. No, I I instructed the AI to select images.
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No, I did not.
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Nico is trying to say something. What did What did What was Nikico's part in this?
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We spoke we had a conversation about the different form languages, but and we, you know, listed some, but we prompted
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the AI to to complete the the form language list.
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Okay. Very interesting. All right.
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Okay. Now, the the next step, there's still one more step. If you want to open
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the document, that is the Casadel Colonial North Colonial. Um,
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Memorial, English publications, English publications on top. Casad Memorial, Ecuadorana.
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That's it. Yeah. So I gave the brief which comes from the government of Ecuador. It says it specifies the the
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the um uh site the dimensions of the site and the uh the number of visitors and the and the square footage of the
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museum exactly like was given as was given to all the other participants in the official um
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concour. Uh so I asked the AI now here are here is the form language you want to use here's the pattern language
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selection and here is a brief three documents write me a narrative of the museum
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and the AI now wrote a narrative and let's read the narrative so this is the project fact just half a page that's all we need okay this was specified by the
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government of Ecuador what about the lot did you have the same property lines Yeah. Yeah. I said the
31:12
31 minutes, 12 seconds
location and it was able the AI can look up at the location alo and aid republic
31:19
31 minutes, 19 seconds
and the site is 13,000 square meters building footprint under half the side and then minimum 25,000 square meters on four principal levels.
31:30
31 minutes, 30 seconds
This is from the government brief. So the AI produced a narrative.
31:42
31 minutes, 42 seconds
So here is what the AI said. The new museum cuador is conceived not as a single monumental object but as a civic
31:49
31 minutes, 49 seconds
complex of interconnected wings, patios, galleries, terraces and covered passages. So this comes from the pattern language.
31:58
31 minutes, 58 seconds
And then the organizing idea is the Ecuadorian history should be experienced specially as a gradual ascent from the
32:05
32 minutes, 5 seconds
geological weight of the Andes and pre-Colombian foundations. So the foundations of the buildings take from the pre-colian that's a form language
32:14
32 minutes, 14 seconds
now coming in through the earn and timber architecture of the colonial period towards the light roofs, balconies, color and ceremonial ornament
32:23
32 minutes, 23 seconds
of the cultures that followed. So without wasting any more time, this is a document that describes the experience
32:32
32 minutes, 32 seconds
and I prompted the document, give me a narrative of a person, a visitor to the museum, how they experience the spaces
32:41
32 minutes, 41 seconds
from the pedestrian, from the user viewpoint, and what do they see and what do they feel?
32:50
32 minutes, 50 seconds
So this is what it um this is extraordinary it gave me. So scroll a little bit. It's only uh it's not very long actually.
33:00
33 minutes
first approach, first sight, first approach.
33:04
33 minutes, 4 seconds
And um it uses, you see, it uses the uh the uh
33:11
33 minutes, 11 seconds
terms from the Ecuadorian thick lime wash, tapial and adobe at the lower levels, bare and timber in the upper
33:19
33 minutes, 19 seconds
galleries, gables and balconies. These are the local terms for the for the materials. This comes from the form language.
33:28
33 minutes, 28 seconds
These are technologies that are very efficient for the climate here. These are the correct technologies, the appropriate ones.
33:39
33 minutes, 39 seconds
And and Nikico, every every entry in the um official contest never mentioned the earthquake. Kito is an earthquake zone.
33:52
33 minutes, 52 seconds
These traditional technologies have lasted for 3,000 years.
33:56
33 minutes, 56 seconds
Yeah. The baharek is exactly the the uh goya palumbana
34:04
34 minutes, 4 seconds
whatever the colombian cage from Lisbon bio Madrid. It's half timbering.
34:12
34 minutes, 12 seconds
Um this is this is wonderful and it really gives you an opportunity.
34:20
34 minutes, 20 seconds
I I don't know that a a a modernist could touch this because they really don't know what to ask and they don't know the content.
34:29
34 minutes, 29 seconds
But the this is also the first time I've known of the Christopher Alexander method for um since the 1970s.
34:40
34 minutes, 40 seconds
So I'm I've been in that space what is this 50 years? I've known it about about
34:47
34 minutes, 47 seconds
it for 50 years. This is the very first time I've ever seen it used in a manner that actually renders a genuinely fine architectural product.
35:00
35 minutes
Near, you're going to make me cry with with emotion.
35:05
35 minutes, 5 seconds
Who are you and what have you done with Dr. Bura, sir? We know is not a fan of Christopher.
35:12
35 minutes, 12 seconds
He paid me to do this.
35:16
35 minutes, 16 seconds
Okay. So the final step one once more clean
35:23
35 minutes, 23 seconds
uh prompt to the AI saying here is the narrative of a new museum the description of how a person enters and
35:32
35 minutes, 32 seconds
goes through and feels. So it's the descriptive feeling in words produce me
35:38
35 minutes, 38 seconds
images of this museum and he did it and these are the images we're seeing now which have been curated by Dr.
35:46
35 minutes, 46 seconds
Buras. But I want to say to the audience, to our listeners, we did not generate a thousand images and pick 20
35:54
35 minutes, 54 seconds
of the best ones. No, it gave like 35 images and we picked 25. So, a very high
36:01
36 minutes, 1 second
success rate. These all gorgeous images that it gave consistently good from just from the narrative.
36:09
36 minutes, 9 seconds
This type of ornament marking the entry is brilliant.
36:12
36 minutes, 12 seconds
Um, so but it asked for four levels. I mean, you could easily step back above and have a little bit of a mass go above if they wanted four levels because this looks like two.
36:21
36 minutes, 21 seconds
Well, you you need to go to four levels because of the patios. So, the patios take up probably
36:30
36 minutes, 30 seconds
about a half of the area maybe or a third and the and the program is twice the
36:38
36 minutes, 38 seconds
square footage of the site, right? So, you're at four.
36:43
36 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah. But you don't need to be at four on the street level. Amen. Yeah.
36:48
36 minutes, 48 seconds
You can have the four deeper inside where it's less impactful.
36:53
36 minutes, 53 seconds
You really want to drive around something that is so inviting, so simple in appearance,
37:01
37 minutes, 1 second
so obvious that the rest of the program is hidden in some spaces. And when you look at the
37:09
37 minutes, 9 seconds
at the very first slide, you see there are parts that are four or five stories in there. Oh, right.
37:16
37 minutes, 16 seconds
You see stacking and you also see on this relatively on this relatively
37:24
37 minutes, 24 seconds
flat site. You see how the parking actually is used to create topography
37:32
37 minutes, 32 seconds
deeper in the deeper in the project. So this podium the project is raised on is used for parking of course.
37:42
37 minutes, 42 seconds
Right.
37:42
37 minutes, 42 seconds
And you also have other museum facilities that require the security and the and all this. It it gives you
37:52
37 minutes, 52 seconds
whatever it is that you're looking for in the context of the museum. So it's this image and all the other images combined together somehow.
38:04
38 minutes, 4 seconds
This is really good. Very successful. It is Professor Selingaros. This is it. You
38:11
38 minutes, 11 seconds
have adequately used a new digital tool
38:20
38 minutes, 20 seconds
to create believable images that an architect now can sit down. Now, Professor Funus can take these and design the project for you.
38:30
38 minutes, 30 seconds
Right.
38:31
38 minutes, 31 seconds
Exactly. And now we move to the second part of this presentation symposium
38:38
38 minutes, 38 seconds
because the the images part of the prompt for the images was to generate a variety of options so that we could see.
38:49
38 minutes, 49 seconds
So it's not a single building. These are all different buildings. Now we have to get an architect to design a single building inspired by these images.
39:01
39 minutes, 1 second
We can only ask, be careful our listeners, we can only ask someone who has skills in traditional architecture
39:09
39 minutes, 9 seconds
because a modernist architecture just does not have the skills to design a museum based on these images. They they
39:17
39 minutes, 17 seconds
just don't know how to do it. So here we have our friend Pablo Alv Alvarez Fes who can do it. So you need a traditional
39:26
39 minutes, 26 seconds
architect to actually create the the final design and and the working drawings.
39:35
39 minutes, 35 seconds
So Pablo, you want to take over?
39:37
39 minutes, 37 seconds
Sure. I mean, I have to say that when I was working on on on my set of sketches, I had in mind totally the image that you sent first.
39:46
39 minutes, 46 seconds
That's what I had in my mind. So I was very shocked when I when I saw that it was actually that. So then for the sake
39:53
39 minutes, 53 seconds
of adding a bit of a variety, I decided to to add to create three.
39:59
39 minutes, 59 seconds
No, that's not that one. S the Sana project. No.
40:05
40 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. Uh this is uh Pablo's project. Pablo's hand draw hand drawings. Yes.
40:12
40 minutes, 12 seconds
Yes. But he was inspired by the Sana project, I believe. No.
40:16
40 minutes, 16 seconds
What I did is that I wanted to put of course not. God for God's sake. I wanted to to to do exactly the same location
40:24
40 minutes, 24 seconds
that the Sana project was showing so that they could that we could compare how the scale would look like. So I think that the first thing I have to say
40:31
40 minutes, 31 seconds
is that initially my idea was to do something exactly like Nikos did. I mean I was very shocked when I saw that render because it was more or less it
40:40
40 minutes, 40 seconds
was in my brain and then I decided okay since Nikos has so brilliantly done the proposal based on the visa royal
40:47
40 minutes, 47 seconds
architecture I am going to take another reference that sometimes is ignored a lot in the architecture in the in in in
40:54
40 minutes, 54 seconds
the South American country which is the republican architecture which is all the neocclassical architecture. So on that sense I did three variants. So if we if
41:02
41 minutes, 2 seconds
we come back I I I I'll explain them. So we go to the proper one.
41:11
41 minutes, 11 seconds
So they are based on three different stages of 19th century. So basically what I did I got the the camp of image
41:19
41 minutes, 19 seconds
deleted it. I used Gemini to to delet it and generate something. I don't know if it exactly the skyline of Kito is exactly like that. But I did three
41:27
41 minutes, 27 seconds
sketches. One is based on the early neocclassical tradition. Yes. Ara zoom in so we can see the details please.
41:36
41 minutes, 36 seconds
So it's it's it's a it's a it's a quick hand sketch. I mean I I spent like 10 minutes on each. I mean I know that obviously now a lot of modernist will
41:44
41 minutes, 44 seconds
say oh you only spent 10 minutes. Well Mr. Campobias has spent years. But yeah normally all these proposals are are in a sketch done in a in an app key. We all
41:52
41 minutes, 52 seconds
know how they work and then we develop them. So and on on that side I mean we have to say that it doesn't make much difference one to the other. So this
42:01
42 minutes, 1 second
first one is inspired in the early neocclassical. So the neocclassical as soon as all these countries got independence they needed to give
42:08
42 minutes, 8 seconds
themselves new institutions and they look at the early neocclassical tradition. So this one is pure white. It
42:16
42 minutes, 16 seconds
has it has a it has a colonate but the whole building is very very simple and the whole idea is that it will develop in three levels grown plus two plus a
42:24
42 minutes, 24 seconds
basement. It will have cordyards in the inside in a very similar distribution that Nikos has shown. But I mean considering that all that part of the
42:32
42 minutes, 32 seconds
program was heavily created, I decided to do something that was working with the location and the same point of view
42:39
42 minutes, 39 seconds
so that people could compare it. So that one is like simple early neocclassical
42:45
42 minutes, 45 seconds
on the early 19th century. Then the next one is inspired in the mid 19th century
42:53
42 minutes, 53 seconds
more the a bit more formal neocclassical is not anymore rendered in white in this case I'm using andite uh stone which is
43:01
43 minutes, 1 second
very typical from from kito the building looks much darker but there is a lot I I saw a lot of examples of of
43:09
43 minutes, 9 seconds
institutional buildings in that sort of dark stone so and then I wanted to something much more formal with an
43:16
43 minutes, 16 seconds
slightly beginning a glimpse of French influence but still heavily inspired in the local tradition which was that one. So it's
43:25
43 minutes, 25 seconds
much it's much more formal than the other one that is much more presence of classical elements. I mean as opposed to something much more vernacular because I
43:32
43 minutes, 32 seconds
thought that that was brilliantly covered by by Nikos. So I decided to propose something that was traditional but was not another uh replication of
43:42
43 minutes, 42 seconds
what he did. The idea is that obviously on top of the bar could be sculptures. I am linking it with the the idea of the big institutional architecture of 19th
43:51
43 minutes, 51 seconds
century. And the last one is making an echo to the architecture of the bosart.
43:57
43 minutes, 57 seconds
So the architecture of the late 19th century when a lot of equatorans architect of the elites went to Paris to study on the on this called the bosart
44:05
44 minutes, 5 seconds
came back but also a lot of French adventurers went to to to lots of countries in America and they created beautiful
44:13
44 minutes, 13 seconds
architecture over there. So this is something that is in between. It's a bit more playful. It's not h it doesn't have
44:20
44 minutes, 20 seconds
the simplicity of the first one either the formality of the other. It has big glass spans which you see a lot in museums of this type. It has a mix of
44:29
44 minutes, 29 seconds
rendered areas and undeided stone areas and obviously much more complexity in the domes. So the whole idea was to also
44:37
44 minutes, 37 seconds
pay a homage to to a to a little bit to a part of the qutoriian architecture in general architecture in America that has
44:44
44 minutes, 44 seconds
been quite unfairly forgotten and condemn as simply eclectic or too academic but is also very valuable and
44:52
44 minutes, 52 seconds
you see that in Ecuador you see that in Colombia, Mexico, Brazil and and it's it's a sort of vindicating that
45:00
45 minutes
beautiful architecture that that should be analyzed more because it it also shows the really powerful and big creativity
45:09
45 minutes, 9 seconds
that the Qutortorian architects have all over history. So those are the Yeah.
45:15
45 minutes, 15 seconds
Oh, you can't see. Oh, right here. This would be an amazing public space that people would love to gather in right in front of this building.
45:22
45 minutes, 22 seconds
When reviewing them with Dr. Burus, obviously there should be more trees there, but obviously if I put the trees, you wouldn't see be able to see the the building. So that's why I didn't put them.
45:32
45 minutes, 32 seconds
that area would be like land beautifully landscaped.
45:37
45 minutes, 37 seconds
And those are the three proposals. I wanted to put them as a sort of um counterweight to what Nikos was proposing. But if I have to be honest,
45:45
45 minutes, 45 seconds
if Nikos hasn't done uh that proposal, I would have done something very very similar to what he actually did because
45:53
45 minutes, 53 seconds
I think that's the more adequate. These these three ones are a compliment to say okay these are other options and these are other parts of the equatoran history
46:00
46 minutes
of architecture that we should talk about.
46:04
46 minutes, 4 seconds
These would be the more classical these are very familiar forms to the republican and the classical eras. Well,
46:13
46 minutes, 13 seconds
I don't know. I don't know to speak of classical, but yes, they are. There's a lot of these buildings in the center of
46:20
46 minutes, 20 seconds
Kito, the colonial center, and they are well regarded by people. People have an emotional attachment to them as well.
46:32
46 minutes, 32 seconds
To be honest, my my favorite building in Kito is the conventto San Francisco with that wonderful staircase with the round staircase that is emulating the
46:39
46 minutes, 39 seconds
staircase of the Belvader. I I would have loved to do that, but I said that since Nikos did all the other ones, I said I'm going to to to pay a homage to
46:47
46 minutes, 47 seconds
to all that other part of the history of architecture.
46:54
46 minutes, 54 seconds
So, thank you Pablo. This is fantastic and a very nice complement to what the
47:01
47 minutes, 1 second
AI generated through my scientific um um procedure. I want to make two
47:09
47 minutes, 9 seconds
comments to our listeners. If anyone is listening from Ecuador, look people of Ecuador, we have
47:17
47 minutes, 17 seconds
validated and resurrected your architectural history.
47:23
47 minutes, 23 seconds
This is your history. This is like your mother and your grandmother and your great grandmother. We can build this today.
47:32
47 minutes, 32 seconds
And arguably expensive, less expensive than the It is less expensive. If we can use the latest technology to do all this ornamented uh this is mass production
47:41
47 minutes, 41 seconds
ornament very very inexpensive that's one thing cultural the cultural value of this the second is the beauty where have
47:50
47 minutes, 50 seconds
you seen this beauty in a contemporary uh proposal
47:57
47 minutes, 57 seconds
you don't see any of this this are proposals get this how do we actually get this to the right people
48:06
48 minutes, 6 seconds
by by making our video today and then hoping that Nico can get the journalist
48:12
48 minutes, 12 seconds
the Ecuador to to listen to and see a video and and see these images.
48:19
48 minutes, 19 seconds
Um, do you have the capacity, Ara, to create a threeinut video of this with music?
48:30
48 minutes, 30 seconds
Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and so Nico, can you do that?
48:37
48 minutes, 37 seconds
Yes, this this would be very helpful. I I have to say people are actually expectant of what we're going to work
48:45
48 minutes, 45 seconds
out. I mean, what we're going to present today, what we're presenting and our video that Arab published and shared
48:51
48 minutes, 51 seconds
with me in in social media reach 100,000 and more
48:58
48 minutes, 58 seconds
people watching it. Lots of debate, lots of conversation. People are really um in tune with the questions we're answering with this proposal.
49:10
49 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah, it's sparking a lot of debate.
49:12
49 minutes, 12 seconds
Hundreds of people are in the comment section commenting and debating with each other about traditional versus modernist ways of designing.
49:21
49 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah, sparking debates normally, but we don't have comments here this time or or are they in another platform? No, on on Instagram.
49:29
49 minutes, 29 seconds
On Instagram. Instagram. I'll send you the post. Oh, wow.
49:34
49 minutes, 34 seconds
I found someone. I'm going to share it in the link. So, if you can some someone has has done something similar. I'm going to put it in the chat as posting
49:43
49 minutes, 43 seconds
on Instagram like a AI alternative. Very interesting.
49:47
49 minutes, 47 seconds
Very I mean I mean it's I'm not going to but yeah, it's it's quite quite interesting. I think that Mr. Campbasa must be a bit annoyed.
49:57
49 minutes, 57 seconds
This is lovely. This is Byzantine Ecuadorian bosar.
50:03
50 minutes, 3 seconds
Um, without without knowing the the the alternative of of the that you
50:10
50 minutes, 10 seconds
mentioned, Pablo, I want to raise a warning flag that architects are using AI just to create images.
50:19
50 minutes, 19 seconds
Yes, this is not the case. No, I used AI to create the form language to select the pattern language and they
50:28
50 minutes, 28 seconds
create the images. You see, it's not just creating a pretty image.
50:33
50 minutes, 33 seconds
So, the scientific method has several steps before you get to the image. So, I can imagine some sympathetic architect
50:41
50 minutes, 41 seconds
who likes beautiful things saying giving a prompt to the AI and say create a beautiful image for the museum. But that's not based on any any scientific theory.
50:50
50 minutes, 50 seconds
So it's not the same thing that we're doing, right? This is cabalistic manifestation meets science.
51:05
51 minutes, 5 seconds
Um, so this comment I want to uh reply and say the AI wouldn't be generating the architecture. We would be generating text. The text would be long.
51:14
51 minutes, 14 seconds
And this is exactly the point. This is not AI generated architecture. This is
51:21
51 minutes, 21 seconds
genuine architecture rendered from detailed descriptions
51:31
51 minutes, 31 seconds
intentionally composed for them. This is not an AI accident.
51:39
51 minutes, 39 seconds
It would go through a whole basically using AI to render something intentional.
51:47
51 minutes, 47 seconds
Yeah. And it would need the process of developing the floor plans and the elevations and the sections and then going through mechanical, electrical, plumbing and structural engineers and
51:54
51 minutes, 54 seconds
then getting refined, approved by their local building and safety and then going on to a general contractor. Um, yeah, the AI would never be I don't even think
52:02
52 minutes, 2 seconds
in the future the AI would be fully generating architecture. You have here three licensed traditional architecture, right?
52:12
52 minutes, 12 seconds
And we stand behind this extraordinary application of AI as buildable and advantageous for humans.
52:24
52 minutes, 24 seconds
So there's no accident in this blah blah blah.
52:30
52 minutes, 30 seconds
And in any case, a lot of the modernist proposal are based on whimsical renders that then cannot be built or have like disastrous uh consequences. I mean any
52:39
52 minutes, 39 seconds
of the consequences of these images are much less disastrous that that even the the weakest render.
52:53
52 minutes, 53 seconds
This it to me the strength of this proposal is that these are tried and
52:59
52 minutes, 59 seconds
true technologies uh both of hierarchical meaning meaning creation
53:06
53 minutes, 6 seconds
and also structurally they are tried and proven technologies that have an entire the entire colonial center of Kito is is
53:16
53 minutes, 16 seconds
a testament to the fact that they are the strongest and best structures for here.
53:27
53 minutes, 27 seconds
So, well, I think our proposal speaks for itself. There's no need to get into palemics, but um
53:35
53 minutes, 35 seconds
for the people of Ecuador, why have you not seen new proposals for
53:41
53 minutes, 41 seconds
buildings with this astonishing quality of beauty?
53:47
53 minutes, 47 seconds
because contemporary architects have convinced the public that we just don't do beauty anymore. We don't need beauty.
53:53
53 minutes, 53 seconds
That that's a falsehood. The human body needs beauty.
53:57
53 minutes, 57 seconds
Absolutely. And Nigos isn't uh isn't um proposing that this exactly be built.
54:03
54 minutes, 3 seconds
He's proposing that these be inspiration inspirational images to someone preparing floor plans and elevations
54:10
54 minutes, 10 seconds
that u these are not meant to be consistent. These are supposed to be providing inspiration to the architect.
54:15
54 minutes, 15 seconds
Exactly. That's why Pablo did a single building but even Pablo gave three
54:23
54 minutes, 23 seconds
different buildings with the same uh with the same basic for plan. So these are variations to show what is possible
54:31
54 minutes, 31 seconds
right and every practicing architect knows that the first two weeks of any project you're going through multiple iterations. It's not set in stone yet until a couple weeks in.
54:38
54 minutes, 38 seconds
Uh Mr. Mr. blah blah blah.
54:43
54 minutes, 43 seconds
I wonder I'm going to throw your comment back at you. I wonder if you could see a way
54:53
54 minutes, 53 seconds
in which all of these images might actually represent multiple rooms,
55:02
55 minutes, 2 seconds
multiple patios. And if you could not yourself as the great thinker find a way
55:11
55 minutes, 11 seconds
to tie them together. So there is a there's a sense not of identity
55:19
55 minutes, 19 seconds
identicalness if that's what you mean by consistency that it's all the same but that there is a spirit of
55:28
55 minutes, 28 seconds
architecture moves through these that unites all of this. Do you think that's impossible?
55:35
55 minutes, 35 seconds
Right.
55:37
55 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah. Every image is definitely made in the same spirit. Even um let me let me say something else as a way of explanation.
55:46
55 minutes, 46 seconds
The contrast of the AI using the prompts that we gave it.
55:53
55 minutes, 53 seconds
We encourage the AI to develop alternatives, equally beautiful alternatives so as not to miss anything.
56:03
56 minutes, 3 seconds
That's why all these images are not of a single essential. That's an essential point because the timber, the aesthetic timber
56:12
56 minutes, 12 seconds
of all of these images is roughly around eight on the beauty scale. All of them have a similar neurological
56:22
56 minutes, 22 seconds
level. So you're moving from one space to the other. That is the consist
56:29
56 minutes, 29 seconds
consistency that you're in a common aesthetic millure.
56:35
56 minutes, 35 seconds
Design-wise, you want the variety.
56:39
56 minutes, 39 seconds
So, this is a museum of Ecuadorian culture of which architecture is also a part.
56:48
56 minutes, 48 seconds
So the second half of the paragraph is that most contemporary architects just decide on a single form.
56:59
56 minutes, 59 seconds
They think it's great because they thought about it and they create the building. They create the design from a single form. Not not
57:07
57 minutes, 7 seconds
exploring the infinite possibilities that that we are capable of exploring here.
57:13
57 minutes, 13 seconds
Not to mention that a lot of architects they just have an idea they just have a style and then they repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and
57:21
57 minutes, 21 seconds
repeat it talking about originality.
57:24
57 minutes, 24 seconds
So you you can easily distinguish a building from Leking or a building even Saha did died 15 years ago and you still can't
57:32
57 minutes, 32 seconds
can distinguish the Sahad style. So it's like and then they they call us that we are the the non-originals or we are
57:40
57 minutes, 40 seconds
plagiarizing. So it's it's a bit the the the double the double standard that modern has created.
57:47
57 minutes, 47 seconds
That's a good point. Every architect does have a signature style.
57:50
57 minutes, 50 seconds
Well, that's the whole point. You cannot be a a you cannot be a staritect without
57:58
57 minutes, 58 seconds
a recognizable style. So people who understand that, who understood that like Zah Hadid, like Lebkin, like Frank
58:07
58 minutes, 7 seconds
Garry, they went out and they sought their own signature style which they could sell
58:15
58 minutes, 15 seconds
to the market of modernist um progressive architecture
58:22
58 minutes, 22 seconds
as having value as architecture of our time.
58:28
58 minutes, 28 seconds
But all it is, it's a it's a wacky style which uh is being sold for as as if it has more value than that.
58:43
58 minutes, 43 seconds
The the the modernist discourse is a troubled one.
58:51
58 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah. Because deep inside, think of or
59:00
59 minutes
towards a new architecture, right?
59:03
59 minutes, 3 seconds
Think of what underpins Misa's simplicity so to speak.
59:11
59 minutes, 11 seconds
Think of what Gropius was trying to do in the Bow House and later at Harvard.
59:18
59 minutes, 18 seconds
It was a deeply almost religious faith in their ideas,
59:26
59 minutes, 26 seconds
right? And M. Mander was saying, "Hey, you can't come up with a new architecture every Monday morning." Like it really clicked and everyone was like, "Oh, yeah, you come up with one and you keep doing it."
59:34
59 minutes, 34 seconds
Um, they had not it didn't take into consideration the local hiding
59:41
59 minutes, 41 seconds
they were hiding these almost religious cultlike sets of notions behind
59:47
59 minutes, 47 seconds
their styles behind the new objectivism of their styles
59:56
59 minutes, 56 seconds
of which were completely arbitrary and they were masks. They were
1:00:02
1 hour, 2 seconds
appalonian masks on dionian I don't know how to call it this is a dionian o overthinking.
1:00:13
1 hour, 13 seconds
Yeah, don't keep showing this. people may think that we actually like I have a question speaking to
1:00:22
1 hour, 22 seconds
excuse me to this plurality and what was what our friend blah blah blah was speaking about but I am curious what you
1:00:30
1 hour, 30 seconds
think Nikos and as well Ner and Pablo about the potentiality for this um
1:00:36
1 hour, 36 seconds
process that Nikos has developed to making architecture
1:00:43
1 hour, 43 seconds
participatory with the user versus the alternative which the government of Ecuador did which is which was like you
1:00:52
1 hour, 52 seconds
can vote over 15% of the decision- making process which is a joke a joke of democracy but I believe that there might
1:01:00
1 hour, 1 minute
be great potential for this method to be able to actually hear the public's need
1:01:06
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for architecture and respond to it in a real way.
1:01:11
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That's a very good question. That's a very very good question.
1:01:15
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We have the tools today. We can generate instead of 25 beautiful images that we show today, we can generate 100 images,
1:01:23
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put them online, have the public vote, and then from the highest voted images, then an architect combines to create the actual building.
1:01:34
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That's one stage. Or we can do this every day for a year because the software can do it over and over and
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over again. So the public can have immediate access. You can just redo the redo the plans on and on and on again
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every few minutes. So the public you get feedback from the public which you don't get.
1:01:56
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Yes, you can. Yes, you can. But the problem with this and this has been shown. It has to be curated.
1:02:02
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Yes. The problem of having the public, you see that in social media.
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You really don't want that kind of public engagement.
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You want some kind of meaningful public feedback.
1:02:23
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So the only way to get it is to revert to the real. In other words,
1:02:33
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we use this method to generate the basic concepts,
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the basic aesthetics, the what what Nikos talks about as the form language
1:02:49
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and then we need to create a plan. This Nikos did not create a plan. No, no, we need to create a plan
1:02:58
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and and then dress it up in these different styles as appropriate
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and this is our job as architects to do things that are appropriate and we need to give a response to the
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plan as well. You need to give a response to the program and ensure that all the spaces work coordinately. I mean at the moment we have the images that Nikos have generated.
1:03:23
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They are a series of very well-crafted individual rooms that then I mean then they can be linked together creating
1:03:31
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different effects, different things and then we will dress them up.
1:03:36
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Exactly. And and there actually are quite a few especially at the corners.
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You start looking at the corners you're going to see hallucinations that are embarrassing. Yeah. But we know that AI does that.
1:03:50
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So this is these are images. These are flavors. These are not solutions.
1:03:57
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Going towards the solution. Yeah, it's possible to create this. But you need a masterful architect
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like Professor Fes to to create these forms, draw them, detail them, and make sure that they're buildable.
1:04:14
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So the next step actually uh
1:04:22
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well that sounds really wonderful. Let's let's uh let's let's uh see how this works. But you can't actually do anything
1:04:30
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participatory without building a fairly large model of this.
1:04:35
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You have to build a model that's probably 8 by 12 ft in size and maybe illustrative models,
1:04:44
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cross-sections of the patios, right?
1:04:48
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Many many renderings. This is a huge project, 100 million bucks. So the design, the design fee on this should be at least 10%.
1:04:57
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Right?
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Of which approximately five million is going to go to the engineers at least.
1:05:05
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So the you actually probably need something like a 25% uh design fee on something like this because the
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mechanical engineers, the structural engineers, the seismic engineers, the the the facade development engineers,
1:05:21
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all these consultants, the interior consultants, the materials consultant, the flammability consultant,
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the security consultants. You probably need 25% of cost of construction. This is this is probably more like a $250 million project than 100 million.
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They're just fooling themselves as all projects do starting out.
1:05:46
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And you need and you'll get a really good building that will stand there for 500 years. Yeah. Absolutely.
1:05:52
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And u Yeah. Once the physical model, the floor plan, the 3D model is down, then you generate that consistent
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bring the public and get the feedback from the public on that in real time on
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a real model, a real presentation. Doing this on social media, unless it's heavily
1:06:14
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curated, is going to be a train wreck.
1:06:20
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Yeah. The problem is everyone's attention is on social media.
1:06:23
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Yeah. Near knows exactly what he's talking about and knows exactly how to handle this project. Now gentlemen, we're running out of time. Even though
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this is my project and I would love to talk more about it, but I want to end with one comment. This is the beginning.
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This is the declaration of the revolution. We have done something here.
1:06:44
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We have shown that it's possible. This can be done. It's beautiful. It can be done today. It's a I hope it's the beginning of a revolution.
1:06:53
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Absolutely. And I hope Nikico Salangaros will publish these in an article these with an article with these images. I think that'll be great to have.
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I I invite you, Nikos. We're working on a project where we need to create something locally acceptable, locally identifiable.
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Um I I want to invite you to uh work with us to see if we can apply what you did here on a much more modest project.
1:07:19
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I am honored to work with you, Near. Uh although the budget is the same, you know, we're doing a small building.
1:07:26
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That's a hundred million bucks.
1:07:28
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I mean, it's maybe the size of a block, but it's a hund00 million building.
1:07:33
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Um this is uh this looks to me like a lot more.
1:07:37
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A lot more. How much did Zoom tours museum cost?
1:07:42
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I heard the Walt Disney Concert Hall was 300 million. Um let's see the Zoom tour. Makes sense. Makes sense.
1:07:48
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And that was And that was 25 years ago.
1:07:51
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30 years ago, 40 years near, we're getting off off off topic. Do we have concluding remarks?
1:07:58
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What are you talking about? That's the main topic here.
1:08:00
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So, so Lakmo was uh around 700 to 800 million. Which one? Zoom.
1:08:07
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The the new Zor Lacma building 700 million.
1:08:09
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This will cost the same regardless of style. It's about the same size.
1:08:19
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Sorry guys, it's what it costs. Don't fool yourselves.
1:08:24
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Maybe slightly less than LCMA because they went all curtain wall all the way around.
1:08:29
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But um yeah, it it looked like a cheap system. Maybe they spent a lot of money on it, but it looks like a cheap system.
1:08:40
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It's pretty sad. Yeah.
1:08:43
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God bless him. And it goes close to Bart Princess. Have you been to Bart Prince's pavilion there?
1:08:50
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The weird pavilion next to the tarpets by Oh, the massive sphere. The sphere. The Renzel Cano building.
1:08:58
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There's a sphere. What's the sphere? It's the museum of film.
1:09:05
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Film. Yeah. No, no, that's nonsense. Um um Lorenzo Piano is really
1:09:12
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gentlemen can can we wrap up with concluding remarks on the Ecuador
1:09:21
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so we can end this since we're over time. Thank you very much. God bless everybody.
1:09:30
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I am closing my camera. Thank you. That's it. Okay. Bye everybody. Bye. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
1:09:38
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Thanks so much for this and I think it's the beginning of a lot.
1:09:43
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Yeah. I mean I I hope that you that I mean that you can reach someone there in Ecuador and that we can set the movement. I mean I think that the important thing is to make noise
1:09:51
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and then regardless of of what happens I think that it's good. It's the beginning of a revolution. People need to be aware that I mean come on. I mean it has been
1:09:59
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quite an irregular competition. is going to cost a lot of money to to to to the country and you better do something beautiful than something ugly.
1:10:09
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Right. Absolutely. Byebye. Byebye. Adios.